Unofficial Kogswell Cycles Product Info

In the spirit of Cyclofiend's RBW Page, here's a random collection of content from the iBOB and KOG lists about Kogswell products whose info isn't generally available anywhere else...mostly focused around the 700C P/R frame, sometimes aka the Bijoux....

oldest news items first, newest at the bottom

First glimpse of the 700C P/R...

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http://kogswell.com/bijoux.html

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[from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/12359]

Here's an executive summary:

Same head lugs as the Model G (and D and F).

If you remember back, those lugs are designed to be used
with a 28.6mm steerer. If we do that, then it will be a
simple matter to use the exiting forks for those who
want a threadless fork. A full forty percent of Mod. G
buyers chose threadless forks. The nice thing about
9/8" steering is that we can make the forks lighter than
AND stiffer than a threaded 1" fork. I find that very
appealing. Those who have P/Rs can comment on how
light a 9/8" steel fork can be.

And, as we did with the G, there will be threaded forks as
well. Choice is good.

The seat lug we used on the G was the LS 205:

http://kogswell.com/ls/L6_files/image024.jpg

For the Bijoux, we're going to use the 300R:

http://kogswell.com/ls/L8_files/image008.jpg

Which is designed for a 25.4mm top tube. The tube
tube will 28.6 and the head and taper to 25.4 at the
seat. This will lighten the frame a bit.

The down tube will be 31.8 at the head and 28.6 at
the bottom bracket. The added size at the head
will stiffen up steering and the reduced size at the
BB will soften the ride and lower weight. Yah-Hoo!

There will be two sizes to start: 59.0 and 56.3.

There will be two wheel sizes: 700C and 650B.

And all of those will be available in 132.5 horizontal
dropout, a la the P/R -and- 120mm 'track' dropouts
of a new and better design.

Everything else will be Kogswell Standard: fender
and rack mounts. The racks will finally appear in
and they will fit the forks. The pump pegged has
been moved to the back of the seat tube.

The only other thing to talk about is the name.
I'm going to change it from P/R to something like
The Kogswell Variable Geometry Frameset.
The P/R's geometry has been wildly successful
and we intend to used it up and down the model
line. By the end of the year it will include sets
designed for five different wheel sizes and a variety
configurations; mixte, folding, etc.

If you're new to Kogswell, I invite you to make
comments here on this thread. Ask questions
and state your opinion. That's how we make
things better.

And speaking of new, we picked up two new
dealers in January:

We're delighted to add Old Spokes Home in Burlington,
Vermont to the growing dealer list. Owner Glenn Eames
and manager Michael McDonald are experts in the
Yankee tradition of restoration and reuse. I've had
a ton of fun getting to know them and I encourage
everyone to meet them and welcome them to the
Kogswell Owners Group.

The other new dealer is Tyler Oulton who runs Paramount
Bicycle Repair in Somerville, Mass. Tyler is also the
responsible type who's dedicated to keeping usable
bikes on the road and out of the landfill. And he has
PW spoke machine so send your custom spoke
requirements his way.

I think that's it.

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For those who buy P/R frames, we'll have powder coated
fenders to match:

http://kogswell.com/images/VG700C.jpg

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What will the mounting
> hardware be like? Is it the same as the current P/R hardware or more
> like Honjo or Berthoud hardware?

Current. But you can use French hardware. And if
anyone has a source for the French hardware, let me
know and I'll get some.

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> I'm also curious about your new front rack shown in the picture. Is
> it a Porteur rack or a skinny platform/handlebar rack? Does it use
> single point or two point mounting at the fork crown?

There will be two racks, one skinny, and one Porteuresque.

The Kogswell racks fit the Kogswell forks. Which means that they
fit the threaded attachment points on the Kogswell forks. That's a
deliberate move. We feel that front loading makes sense with lower
trail and so we see the fork and rack as a package.

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> 1) Are the racks steel or aluminum?

Steel.

> 2) You didn't really answer single point or two point mounting at
> the crown. If two point mounting how are you making it compatible
> with caliper brakes?

We're going to use the threaded bosses on the top of the fork crown.

> 3) Are the racks going to be adjustable to fit the different P/R forks
> or are you making non-adjustable racks specific to each fork?

Adjustable.

> I don't think I really understood how important this was until
> working with Alistair on my porteur rack.

I hear ya. The 'P/R Project' has been a real education for me.
I now look at things like fenders and racks much differently.

Tom Ritchey once said that the designers at Huffy were the
koolest: they did the most with the least.

> Hopefully you offer the Kogswell low-trail forks in 1" steerers and
> 700C for upgrading old bikes.

Yes, we are.

>There are a lot of old road bikes out there with 73 degree head
> tube angles which would make great front load bikes with a
> fork swap.

That's the plan.

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700C P/R color possibilities: http://kogswell.com/VGcolors.html

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Adam's take:

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On 2/23/07, Mitchell Gass wrote:
> A channel within the fenders to run the wiring would be the finishing touch.

Our rear fender have wiring clips.
I'll see if I can add them to the fronts.

Thanks, MG

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"Kogswell Cycles"
Re: Was: [BOB] NAHBS 650B STORY.... Now fork crowns
On 3/7/07, c lin wrote:

> So where do all the pretty fork crowns I see in NAHBS come from. Are they
> all old stock or custom sourced

Have a look at the fork crown section of this page:

http://kogswell.com/komponents.html

That's nearly all of the fork crowns that Long Shen sells
these days.

One exception is the new LC44:

http://kogswell.com/images/lc44.jpg

This is the crown that we use for all of our forks. It is
52mm wide between the blades (the W dimension in
the LS catalog). And it is designed for a 28.6mm
steerer. It is easy to adapt to 1" use by shimming
it.

Matthew

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Kogswell P/R Gallery

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P/R Rack mockup

http://kogswell.com/rack.html

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Porteur rack prototype:

http://www.kogswell.com/prods.php

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Kogswell bolt-on fixie cogs:

http://kogswell.com/site/rearHUBS.html

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Summary of P/R Batch #2:

from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/14005
--
Re: [KOG] P/R Batch 2

On 5/17/07, David wrote:

> Is there a summary anywhere of the differences between the first and
> second batches of P/R's?

The down tube changed from 31.8 x 0.6 x 0.9 to 28.6 x 0.6 x 0.9.
The top tube changed from 28.6 x 0.6 x 0.9 to 28.6 x 0.5 x 0.8.
There is a third water bottle mount under the D/T.
There is a second pump peg behind the S/T.
The rear dropouts were modified to Mark II:
http://kogswell.com/images/dropOUTmark2.jpg

The rear brake housing hanger was moved up.
(the forward end of the lower portion of the slot was cut back
to aid in wheel removal when fenders are being used)

The fenders will be alloy. There will not be wire management
clips in the rear fender. The fenders will be anodized silver
instead of being painted. The front fender will be longer and
the rear will be a bit shorter.

The frames and forks will be painted an Indigo blue color
and the headset, seatpost, seat clamp and front brake
hanger will all be silver.

And the 59cm size will be available in 26", 650A/B and
700C.

I think that's it.

Matthew

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Batch #2 of P/R frames supposedly going on the boat NEXT WEDNESDAY (6/27)!!!

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Re: [KOG] Re: That didn't take forever...

On 6/22/07, Jim Gourgoutis wrote:

> Matthew, can you report on the final colors of the next batch of P/R
> frames? Are all the various wheel-size models (26"/650B/700C/?) going
> to be the same color or different? I remember reading a while back
> that the color was to be an indigo blue, does that still hold true?

All frames and fenders and most forks will be black powder
coated.

Some forks, like the forks for the Model P will be unpainted.
The thinking there is that most folks with a P are ready for
a new paint job.

Black is not offensive and it is easy to touch up. That makes
it a very Kogswellian color.

Good question.

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/14498

Here's a photo of a 584 x 590:

http://kogswell.com/siteG2.php

I'll have one w/ paint tomorrow.

And they go on the boat Wed.

Yeah!

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/14602

Here are the forks that are coming:

9/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.3mm walls (not threadable)

A: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) P/R
B: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm. pivot 268mm (584/590 P/R
C: offset: 55mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R
D: offset: 65mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R
E: offset: 70mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F
F: offset: 61mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F

8/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.6mm walls (threadable)

G: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 287mm (622) P
H: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) Konversion

We measure fork blade length from the brake hole in the front of crown
to the point in the dropout slot where the center of the axle will be.

The pivot measurement is the distance from the the brake hole in the
front of crown to the center of the front of the canti post, and I've labeled
those with rim sizes for ease and included a the Kogswell model for which
the fork can be used (we hope that every Kogswell frame owner will take
advantage of this opportunity to re-fork their frames.)

> The Surly LHT has a 72 degree head tube angle compared to the P/R's 73
> HTA. This means that a Kogswell 30mm fork would provide a trail of
> 36mm on the LHT.

I'm working on a large fork order at the moment which we hope to
take delivery of in November. Besides more of the forks shown above, it
will also contain a 8/8" version of the Fork E above. That fork will
specifically
be designed to add offset to 700C x 1" frames.

All of these forks will be $80 plus $20 for shipping.

Please note that the 8/8" forks can be cut and threaded to your spec
for an additional $40.

> If they are available then where can I buy one?

Direct from us - 952-445-8804. We will delay taking fork orders until
August 15 so that we can process dealer frame orders.

Matthew
Kogswell Cycles and Forks

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from P/R frames/forks - order update

Hi, all.

The latest order has hit yet another snag and now that it has
been sorted out, I have substantial information to share.

FORKS

All of the forks were shipped on 7/11 except for the 'E' and 'F' forks.
The geniuses at the fork shop made those forks w/ 366mm blades
instead of 384mm blades. The fork shop says that they will remake
them correctly and they are expect here in roughly 45 days.

FRAMES

These frames shipped on 7/11:

59cm - all three wheel sizes: 26", 650B and 700C
61.6cm - 650B (the only wheel size)

The 53.6 and 56.3cm frames were all rejected and they are being
rebuilt and will be ready to ship when the rebuilt forks are shipped.

In summary, the smaller sizes are delayed and the 700Cs are
unship-able because the forks are not yet available.

This is our seventh frame/fork order and it has been nightmare.
It was delayed beyond all reason and these are the first frames
ever to be rejected. Those who have P/R frames from the first
batch will tell you that the workmanship is top notch. The only
explanation that I got from the frame shop is that they out-sourced
the brazing to a third party that did not do a good job.

I apologize for the delay.

These frame and forks will be quite nice. We've used lighter
tubes, reduced frame weight, fixed the dropouts and brake
hangers, added a second pump peg and a third bottle braze-on
and switched to aluminum fenders. I for one am pretty excited
to see the results.

I'm not even going to talk about the future. I think I'll just wait
for stuff to arrive before I announce it. It's just too painful to
announce delay after delay.

Thanks for your continued support,

Matthew

ps. Here's the fork list again, for those who are interested:

9/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.3mm walls (not threadable)

8/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.6mm walls (threadable)

G: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 287mm (622) P
H: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) Konversion

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/14890

At long last...Here's a photo of the raw 700C x 59cm P/R:

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15442

Re: [KOG] Re: anybody home?

We have 59s left.

The 59 x 650Bs are going pretty quickly.

The 59 x 700Cs need forks, which will ship, along with the
rest of the frames, next week.

The 59 x 26" are going out slowly.

What 53s, 56s and 61s we did get got allocated to dealers
and the persistent.

When I'm not talking on the phone or packing orders, I'm
working on another order of frames, 64 x 700C, 53 and 56
x 650B step-through, and more 650B frames.

The racks are back in motion - the rack guy was away for
about a month, so work stopped.

We're making a lot of money on smaller stuff, and I'd
like to continue to expand that, but I like to make frames
and forks.

I'm as organized as I have ever been, but every time I
find a way to get more efficient and organized, the
demand grows to fill it. We doubled our warehouse
space and it is immediately not enough. It seems
like every door I open immediately gets jammed with
folks trying to move in and out of it.

Oh well.

I'll be packing orders tomorrow and Sunday. I have
to go pick up a new computer mid-day tomorrow.
I'm also picking up packing supplies and making
a delivery to Hiawatha tomorrow. And then on
Sunday I'm putting together a three-pallet
shipment for Trinity. Oh, and I have to run to the
powder coater tomorrow to pick up from some
frames for Free Range.

Persistence pays off.

Don't give up.

Unless you want to.

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15457

> Any pics of the 700c PRs?

I've been holding off on photos until the forks arrive.

I could mock one up with an unpainted P fork...

> What colors are available?

Black.

> Still $540 including....?

P/Rs are now $600. But since we don't have 700C
fenders at the moment, we're charing $560. The
good news is that they'll ship in one box, not two,
so shipping will only be $40, instead of $80.

Matthew

[ed. note: $560 + $40 shipping = $600 for 700C P/Rs,
$560 + $40 fenders + $80 shipping = $680 for 650B P/Rs? ]

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15481

Here's an updated drawing of the 59x700C P/R (note that the BB height shown is wrong, it should be 269mm):

Updated drawings of other current and future Kogswell frames are available by clicking on the above image.

Here's some additional info on choosing a Kogswell frame size: How We Fit You to a Frame

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15585

Not a 700C frame, but here's some of the first photos of a bike built on the new black G2 P/R frame...

http://picasaweb.google.com/lerner.n/KogwellPR

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Dimension study in BikeCad of the 700C P/R...

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15634

If you need decals and a head badge, pls use this form to request them:

http://kogswell.com/decalFORM.php

We do not ship frames w/ decals and headbadges. Many customers
do not want them and others want them only after they've painted their
framesets.

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/15918

On 10/16/07, Jim Gourgoutis wrote:

> Just inquiring if there's any updates to the ETA of the fork
> shipment/700C P/R frames?

I just talked to Taiwan.

Looks like another week until they ship (waiting for
backordered stuff that needs to come along with
them to arrive.)

Best, Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/16203

Re: [KOG] Re: 700c PR

On 10/31/07, Jim Gourgoutis wrote:

> Info on this frame is really only available in the archives of this list.

There's a drawing on this page:

http://kogswell.com/sitePR.php

The color is black.

Kogswell 700C fenders will not be available until 2008.
But others may fit (I don't know the OD of other fenders.
Does anyone?)

The forks left Taiwan today, so in three weeks you can
all start ordering frame/fork sets.

The sets will be $540 (no fenders) and will include a
headset, seatpost and misc stuff. And since the
frame and fork can ship in one box, shipping will
be $50 instead of $80.

Like the other P/R 2.0 models, the 700C x 59
model is a light steel frame with a light steel fork.
The fork blades are light. The stays are light. The
top tube is 28.6mm x 0.5. The down tube is 28.6
x 0.6. The lighter more flexible down tubes seem
to have done the trick. The 26" and 650B models
have a dreamy ride and I expect the 700C model
to be just as good.

To me it's sort of funny how the 28.6 x 0.6 down
tube and the 31.8 x 0.4 down tube have nearly
the same moment of inertia, but one costs
a third of the other.

Matthew

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THE FORKS HAVE LANDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/16411

Re: [KOG] Re: 700C forks - at paint

On Nov 13, 2007 12:51 PM, delta89us2000 wrote:

> Just checking. Any word on the delivery of the 700C forks?

Funny you should ask.

I just got the arrival notice:

http://kogswell.com/images/arrival.jpg

I'm hoping for some time before Nov. 30.

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/16606

Re: [KOG] Re: 700C forks - at paint

On Dec 10, 2007 1:02 PM, andre_ball_x wrote:

> Are there extra "Konversion Forks" included in this batch (Namely the
> E and F models) or are they all pre-designated for the 700c frames? If
> so will they be available for order Tuesday as well?

There are 10 forks w/ 67mm of offset and canti posts set for 700C (30mm trail)
and 50 forks with 58mm of offset (40mm trail). And 20 700C P/R frames.

So there are extras.

And Tuesday will be Wed now because Mr. Big forgot to release the
steamship bill to Panda like he said he would THREE WEEKS AGO!
(he just got married so his head is out of the game a bit).

And for the record, the 650B conversion forks (the 1" forks) have
been here all along.

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/16636

Re: [KOG] Re: 700C forks - at paint

On Dec 18, 2007 12:59 PM, Jim Gourgoutis wrote:

> Any ETA on a shipping-out date? I was hoping to get my frame in time
> to build it up over the holiday for the start of the 2008 brevet
> season in January...

I have the frames. Want a frame now?

The nice folks at the customs office are holding the forks hostage
while the broker fixes a bond issue. They tell me it I should have
them in a week.

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/17770

As promised, there's a 64cm x 700C frame on order
at the moment. It will look a lot like this:

It too will have alloy fenders.

Along with those frames will be another full order of
the 650 model sizes.

And in keeping with tradition we'll have 1" and 9/8"
forks for them all.

The racks are coming along nicely and we'll get
to making step-through frames as soon as possible.

Matthew

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/17857

Seems there's problems fitting certain brands/models of cantilever brakes onto the P/R forks
(both 650B and 700C wheel sizes)....

The studs are positioned a bit high on the fork legs, making brake-shoe/rim-alignment tricky.
The consensus seems to be that old-style cantilevers using smooth-post brake shoes work better,
or be prepared to do some filing to lengthen the slot on new-style canti's using threaded shoes...

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/17886

At least on the 700C P/R frames, it may be advisable to use a 27.4mm seat post, instead of the as-spec'd 27.2mm size. Or be prepared to
drink some canned beer so you have shim material...

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from http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/18648

Kogswell Porteur Rack Update:

This is one of the samples from the fork shop:

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